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Thread Contributor: TheGreatCornholioSaving Hair: Guide to RU58841, Dut, Fin, Minox
#1
Original post by modified on Lookism


Numerous safe, effective treatments now exist for balding. In most cases, balding can now be completely stopped. In some cases it can be reversed and entirely cured. If you start good treatments for hairloss at an NW1-2, there is no reason in your lifetime to ever end up a NW7. Some of us can likely maintain NW0 for life.

A lot of guys on here seem to still be suffering from balding. I went through a rough patch with it myself, during which I had to spend a lot of time reading and experimenting to find a final solution which has worked for me. I feel like I did enough reading/work I could write a Masters thesis on the subject.

People have asked me a lot on here about hair treatments. So I thought rather than try to answer everyone individually, I would write a single post summarizing everything I think people should know.

The main point that people may find useful is I will explain how I mix and apply my own RU58841/minoxidil solution. It takes a bit of effort though, and there are easier approaches to start with (eg. Fin/dut, rogaine foam), so I will talk about all these methods to an extent and that might help people decide what is best for them.

I will also talk a bit about how hair loss happens to begin with. 


BASICS OF HAIR LOSS

In order to stop and reverse hair loss, it is important to first have to understand how it happens. Hair on the top of the head in most men is sensitive to androgens. The primary androgens are dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and testosterone. DHT is made from testosterone by an ezyme called 5-alpha reductase. DHT is generally most important in puberty. After that its primary known effects are hair loss and enlarging prostates (why old guys have trouble peeing).

Both DHT and testosterone can bind to hair follicles, but DHT binds much more powerfully. Synthetic androgens like tren and winstrol, etc. can bind as powerfully as DHT or more. 

When androgens bind to hair follicles, they trigger the follicles to begin miniaturizing. The average hair cycle is around 5 years. Once they start suffering androgen damage, follicles will start growing for shorter and shorter cycles, and with thinner and thinner diameter, until eventually they stop growing altogether.

How this happens on a biochemical level is still being learned. Newest research shows it is mediated by changes in prostaglandins (messenger molecules) in the scalp. Good prostaglandins which promote hair growth get downregulated. Bad prostaglandins which promote inflammation and hair damage get upregulated. The scalp becomes toxic to the hair follicles, and the follicles die. This is where the ‘prostaglandin protocol’ comes from.

So in summary:
- Androgens trigger the cascade.
- Good prostaglandins get dowregulated.
- Bad prostaglandins get upregulated.
- Inflammation occurs.
- Inflammation and hostile environment causes hair to miniaturize and fall out.
- Hair stem cells go quiet or die off.

Knowing that this is how the process works allows us to understand that there are at least a few levels at which hair loss can be fixed.


ANTI-ANDROGENS

The absolute most important part of any hair loss treatment is anti-androgenic therapy. Androgens are the root cause of hair loss in genetically susceptible men. If you are not doing something effective to block androgens, you are fighting a losing battle.


Finasteride & Dutasteride
Both fin and dut are 5-alpha reductase inhibitors. Ie. They inhibit the enzyme which turns testosterone into DHT. By blocking the production of DHT, they reduce the damage to the hair considerably, and in most people that's actually enough to stabilize the hair for a decade or more. Even with no DHT in your system, plain testosterone can still bind the follicles, which is why hair loss may still very gradually progress with these agents.

Finasteride 1 mg daily usually decreases DHT by 70%. Dutasteride 0.5 mg daily reduces DHT by over 95%. The cheapest way to get finasteride is to buy 5 mg tablets and cut them into quarters (1.25 mg daily).

Studies show significant regrowth on both by 6 months, and max regrowth by 1 year. Dutasteride generally results in 50% greater hair regrowth by one year vs fin. So if you want the best result, try dut, but with slightly higher side effects possibly due to the greater DHT reduction.

Side effects on both according to SCIENTIFIC PLACEBO-CONTROLLED LITERATURE are minimal, mild, and reversible. In studies, both people taking the meds and people taking placebo had sexual side effects. Placebo is strong. Don't underestimate it. I don’t have the exact numbers as I am not interested in going back to the studies to find them. But it was roughly only about 2-3% more guys on the meds than on placebos had sexual side effects. So the sexual side effect rate is ~2-3% for both meds ie. pretty minimal. As I said, in all scientific studies, this has been 100% reversible. One study I read suggested a 1/200 (0.5%) risk of gynecomastia with these meds, but another did not confirm it.

Notice I have specified SCIENTIFIC PLACEBO-CONTROLLED LITERATURE. I have no interest in debating or basing my decisions in life on what people anecdotally say on Internet forums. There are a lot of crazy people in this world. That is why science exists. There is no science to support claims like “I took one pill of finasteride and it ruined my life!” These meds have been tested and studied extensively. Both fin and dut have been prescribed to millions of men for many years for enlarged prostates and still found safe. You can make up your own decision. Like I said, I don't care to debate it.

In my opinion, anyone losing their hair should start by trying fin or dut. They are simple and easy. Finasteride 1-1.25 mg will work for 90% of men. Dutasteride 0.5 mg works for >95% of men.

In my case, these meds didn’t work for me for an unknown reason. I tried brand versions of both. I even went up to 2.5 mg daily dutasteride (5x the usual dose) and my DHT levels didn't drop at all. There are a few other people online reporting this. But it seems to be freakishly rare. Some form of genetic resistance to how they work I think. If you want to be sure the med is doing what it is supposed to, check your DHT level before and after starting. You should see a major drop while on the medication.

Then give it a year, and see what your hair looks like. If you’re anything like 90-95% of men, it will be the same or better.

RU58841
RU58841 is my favorite hair loss compound in existence. It has been a life saver to me. It worked for me when fin & dut didn't. I have been on it 5 months and it has been incredible for me. I am growing back steadily from a NW2. The entire area of balding at each corner/temple is covered with fuzz, and little by little the hairs there are becoming terminal. My density on top went from ~80% full  to back to 95%+ full density (perfect or near perfect to my eyes). 

RU58841 has numerous drawbacks however. It is more complicated to use and use safely. If you want to get the best result, you will have to mix it yourself. It takes a bit of work to get all the stuff you need to do this. And there is no long term safety data. This is why I still suggest everyone should start with fin/dut first. However, if you're not afraid of a little learning/work at the start, using RU becomes a pretty simple routine. It takes me 5 minutes a day to mix and apply. And it is absolutely effective.


How RU58841 works:
RU58841 is an experimental anti-androgen developed in the 1990s for anti-acne and anti-hair loss topical applications. 

It is one of the most powerful anti-androgen molecules out there. It binds directly to the androgen receptors in the skin and hair and BLOCKS them so that no other androgen can bind. In this way, it can block both testosterone and DHT from damaging hair. It can also theoretically block synthetic androgens like tren/winstrol/etc. though how well it blocks these synthetic androgens has never been studied.

RU58841 is related in structure/function to powerful anti-androgens like flutamide, which are usually used as tablets to fight androgen-sensitive diseases like prostate cancer. A drug like flutamide will functionally neuter you when you take it orally. RU58841 is about as strong, but with unique differences that makes it useful for skin/hair use.

First of all, when used on the skin, very little RU gets absorbed in the body. Second, and most importantly, of what does get absorbed, 99% gets broken down instantly into inert molecules with no effect on the body. Only 1% of the breakdown product acts as a systemic anti-androgen. 

Based on the amount a typical user will apply for the scalp, how little absorbs, and how little of what absorbs has any biological effect, it would be almost impossible to experience any side effects on RU58841. If you do claim to get sides, I'd bet they're placebo effect.  I have never noticed any side effects from RU, no matter how much I use.


Why can't I buy RU58841 in stores?
The rights to RU58841 have traded hands between a bunch of pharmaceutical companies over the years. None of them have brought it to market. Over all this time, it has also never had big published human studies. All of this is because RU58841 is not commercially viable. 

The first reason it is not commercially viable is it is not stable in solution long term. Once it's mixed into a liquid form, it begins to break down. No one knows how quickly as it was never published. But most say it should be mixed at most 1-3 weeks in advance of use. This means it would go bad too quickly sitting on a shelf in a pharmacy waiting to be sold. Kane says you can go up to a few months but I wouldn't do this.

The second and bigger reason RU58841 will never be commercially viable is it could be theoretically dangerous to pregnant women or children. As a topical anti-androgen, it could be transferred to children or a pregnant woman, ie. if they were running their hands through your hair (or if you did and didn't wash your hands after). Most likely it wouldn't damage a child or baby's development from such small transfers, since anything that gets absorbed into their bodies will also be 99% broken down and inert. But if a wife had a retarded baby, there would be no way to prove it wasn’t from the husband’s RU, and the company selling it would be sued to oblivion.

So there will never be a commercial form of RU58841. No legit company will take that risk.

To avoid the risk of transfer to others, I never touch my hair once it's in. If I do, I wash my hands with soap and water. No one touches my hair. I'd suggest the same precautions if you're using it. Be extra careful if you're around pregnant women.

As far as your own safety is concerned, like I said, there are no long term studies on RU58841. No safety issues were found in the animal studies or limited human studies that were done that I am aware of. But without proper research, it's technically a gamble. I'm comfortable with that knowing what I know about how it works and what it is. But that's your decision again for you.

Personally, I know I'd fucking kill myself if I went bald, so that's not even an option. Given that fin and dut failed me, and RU is working beautifully, I intend to be on RU for life.


How to use RU58841:
Given the stability concerns about RU58841 when premixed, as well as cost and lack of customizability of solutions when buying premixed, I prefer to make my own solution. However, if you'd like to try it more simply to start, premixed solutions are available from Kane. You'll see as I explain how I mix RU, how I also incorporate minoxidil and azelaic acid. I'll briefly cover the mechanisms of action and rationale for minoxidil and azelaic acid later.

Things I use for mixing my RU solutions:
- Dipropylene glycol - easy to buy online. You can also use propylene glycol, but dipropylene glycol is gentler on the skin. So that's what I've always used. lotioncrafter.com sells it cheap as do lots of other sites.
- 95% ethanol (eg. Everclear). This will be used with dipropylene glycol to make the solvent. Can be bough from places that sell 95% Everclear. Otherwise can be bought from chemical supply stores. You can say it is for making fragrances. 
- A jewelery scale. Available on ebay for $10. 
- RU58841 powder. I buy from Kane. Not cheap but worth every penny. Good customer service so far.
- Minoxodil powder. Can be bought on ebay at $60 for 50 grams which will last forever. Search 'minoxidil powder'..
- Azelaic acid. Optional. Can also be bought on ebay. Search 'azelaic acid powder'.
- 100 mL tinted glass bottles. Also available on ebay for a few dollars from China. Search ‘100 mL tinted glass bottle’.
- 1-2 mL eye dropper. I use the eye dropper I got from a bottle of Spectral DNC because it has mL graduations on it. But you can buy plastic/glass ones on ebay again for a few dollars. Search ‘eye dropper’.
- Mini Measure shot glass. Search ebay for 'mini measure shot glass'. 
- Smidgen measuring spoon. Search ebay for 'smidgen measuring spoon'.
- Mini funnel. Search ebay for ‘mini funnel’.


Mixing it up:
The first step is to mix up some solvent. I just do this approximately. It doesn't have to be perfect. Pour 20 mL of dipropylene glycol into the mini measure shot glass. Pour this into your 100 mL tinted glass bottle (using the funnel). Then measure 30 mL of ethanol in the shot glass, and also pour this also into your 100 mL tinted bottle. You now have 50 mL of 60/40 ethanol/dipropylene-glycol solution. If you want more, repeat this process once more into the same bottle and you have 100 mL which will last almost 2 months.

Use your pipette and draw up ~2 mL of the 60/40 solvent. Put it in the shot glass. You will be mixing your day’s application in this shot glass in this way each day.

A dose of 100 mg RU58841 daily works well for me and seems to be generally accepted. You can go as low as 50 mg if you're lucky. I have been going up to around 125-150 mg daily since I got back on roids just to be safe. One flat smidgen spoon of RU58841 works out to almost exactly 50 mg. When I started I would measure by mg on the jewelery scale. Now I just take 2-3 flat smidgens of RU58841 and know that's close enough. 

Same goes for measuring the minoxidil. 50-100 mg minoxidil will do the trick. One-two flat smidgens are good enough. Ditto again for azelaic acid if you are using it too.

Dump all those flat smidgen scoops (or measured amounts) of your powders into the shot glass containing 2 mL solvent. Swirl it to mix. Letting it sit 5-10 minutes often helps. You may find with the amounts I listed it doesn’t all dissolve and you still have some white powder floating in the shot glass. I do this on purpose. That way it guarantees the solvent is fully saturated, also you can still apply that undissolved powder to your scalp when you apply it, so you’re only getting more of everything which is good.

Next once it is fully mixed, use the dropper to draw up ~0.25 mL of solution at a time and apply to scalp, one area at a time. Rub it in each time to spread it around. You’ll want to make sure you especially get the frontal hairline, temples, corners, and crown. I find 2 mL is just enough to get a good coverage. If you want to be sure you are covering well enough, 2.5 mL is good too. I am using that more lately on roids.

Wash your hands and you are done. 

So on a day to day basis, once you have your stuff set up, it’s as simple as:
- Put 2 – 2.5 mL solvent into shot glass
- Add 2 flat smidgens RU, 2 flat smidgens minox, 1-2 flat smidgens azelaic acid.
- Swirl and leave sitting a few minutes.
- Apply to scalp.

As I said, it takes me ~5 minutes per day, and has not only stopped but is reversing my hair loss when dut and fin failed.

neomancr Wrote:Being fat is part of your personality. You made yourself fat and won't lose weight. Sorry bro. That's all you.
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neomancr Wrote:Being fat is part of your personality. You made yourself fat and won't lose weight. Sorry bro. That's all you.
meomeowmeoww Wrote:Its better to be a hot girls tampon/wallet than an ugly girls bf.
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neomancr Wrote:Being fat is part of your personality. You made yourself fat and won't lose weight. Sorry bro. That's all you.
meomeowmeoww Wrote:Its better to be a hot girls tampon/wallet than an ugly girls bf.
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