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Thread Contributor: forever_incelIt’s starting boyos...
#21
(06-03-2018, 01:32 PM)Towie Wrote: JFL at incel men explaining how to domesticate females.

>Thinking @forever_incel is actually an Incel

Grimes
Rofl
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#22
Oh right? Just shows that women have no standards.
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#23
(06-03-2018, 01:29 PM)Towie Wrote: Here's a fact: men in relationships kill far more women (= their partners and wives) than incels have killed so far. Kinda wrecks your theory. Sex isn't a cure all for violent tendencies.
Absolute versus per capita. It's like saying "Christians kill more Americas than Muslims" - well yeah, Muslims are 1% of the population. Per capita, Muslims kill 50x as many people in terrorist attacks.

How many incels are there? Maybe 50,000 were active on Reddit at most(as both ER and the Van guy were). And they've committed two terrorist attacks. Which is a terrorism rate of 1/25,000. I believe the rate for Muslims is 1/20,000 so they're competitive for the #1 spot right now. And Islam has had decades to develop terrorist training problems. Incels are brand new and doing this without formal processes. They'll easily be #1  per capita in no time.

TransistorBass-303 Wrote:I need Fat Acceptance because the alternative is self improvement.

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#24
(06-03-2018, 02:05 PM)TheGreatCornholio Wrote: Absolute versus per capita. It's like saying "Christians kill more Americas than Muslims" - well yeah, Muslims are 1% of the population. Per capita, Muslims kill 50x as many people in terrorist attacks.

How many incels are there? Maybe 50,000 were active on Reddit at most(as both ER and the Van guy were). And they've committed two terrorist attacks. Which is a terrorism rate of 1/25,000. I believe the rate for Muslims is 1/20,000 so they're competitive for the #1 spot right now. And Islam has had decades to develop terrorist training problems. Incels are brand new and doing this without formal processes. They'll easily be #1  per capita in no time.

You don't have a source for that per capita rate (muslims vs. other religions). Here's what you will find a bajillion sources for: young men commit most homicides. Sex or no sex. Muslims or no muslims. It's hilarious that women (hypergamous as in the west, or sexually conservative as in most Muslim societies) are blamed in either case. I'm not making a case for women being great people - in many ways they are just as shit - but these are just facts.
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#25
(06-03-2018, 02:05 PM)TheGreatCornholio Wrote: Absolute versus per capita. It's like saying "Christians kill more Americas than Muslims" - well yeah, Muslims are 1% of the population. Per capita, Muslims kill 50x as many people in terrorist attacks.

How many incels are there? Maybe 50,000 were active on Reddit at most(as both ER and the Van guy were). And they've committed two terrorist attacks. Which is a terrorism rate of 1/25,000. I believe the rate for Muslims is 1/20,000 so they're competitive for the #1 spot right now. And Islam has had decades to develop terrorist training problems. Incels are brand new and doing this without formal processes. They'll easily be #1  per capita in no time.


inceldom is on the rise buddy

40-50% of men are incel

You can go to the moon, invent a cure to every known disease and eliminate global poverty and still be regarded as creep by roasties.



You can be villainous murderer, baby killer and drug lord and still be considered "just perfext x0x0x".



What you accomplish means nothing. Sub 6 PSL = death


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#26
(06-03-2018, 02:03 PM)Towie Wrote: Oh right? Just shows that women have no standards.

Nic2

@Vitriol
@Pencil_Neck_Chad
@Labrot

[Image: N2tmlxa.jpg]
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#27
(06-03-2018, 02:13 PM)Towie Wrote: You don't have a source for that per capita rate (muslims vs. other religions). Here's what you will find a bajillion sources for: young men commit most homicides. Sex or no sex. Muslims or no muslims. It's hilarious that women (hypergamous as in the west, or sexually conservative as in most Muslim societies) are blamed in either case. I'm not making a case for women being great people - in many ways they are just as shit - but these are just facts.
ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE

http://www.politifact.com/california/art...il-right-/

Number of terrorist attacks since 9/11 involving at least one death committed by Muslims: 23 (119 deaths)
Number of terrorist attacks since 911 century involving at least one death committed by Christians: 62 (106 deaths)

Note: These number are heavily skewed because it ignores the biggest terrorist attack in history that killed 3,000 people. 

So Muslims, despite being 1% of the population have killed more people than Christians. Which is a murder per capita rate 106 time higher than Christians. And that post 9/11

Number of Americans killed in the 21st century in terrorist attacks by Muslims: 3,314
Number of Americans killed in the 21st century in terrorist attacks by Christians: 67

Which is 50x absolute rate, and a 5,000x per capita victim rate.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attac...tacks.aspx

Meanwhile, 1/4 American Muslims under age 30, support terrorism to establish Islamic supremacy.
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-ass...df#page=60
And the devout Muslims are 3x as likely to support terrorism.
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-ass...df#page=60

45% of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent "mainstream Islam"
http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/bbc-radio-...slim-poll/

So I've sourced and then some.
Perhaps you would like to take the opportunity to concede that Muslims commit far more terrorism per capita than Christians in America. And that Incels are nearly as dangerous as Muslims?

Bear in mind the vast majority of Islamic terrorists are also virgins. I wonder if that was voluntary celibacy? Because if not...

INCEL IS A RELIGION OF PEACE

Incel even sounds a lot like Islam. 
Gandihu Akbar
[Image: david-gandy-classic-car-alux.jpg]

TransistorBass-303 Wrote:I need Fat Acceptance because the alternative is self improvement.

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#28
I do not dispute that radical Islam is a shitty, violent ideology. But these numbers count only attacks / homicides that are considered 'terrorist'. And that is where I disagree. 
If you look at mass shootings / school shootings, these are far more often classified as the act of a person with a mental illness than a hate crime or a terrorist attack. Why? Because the shooters are white. 

I don't think it is even in dispute that the type of person in the EU or US that is drawn to ISIS might well become a radical incel or a school shooter if they happened to be white rather than Muslim. The underlying reasons are the same: boredom, loneliness, depression, looking for a cause to fight for to escape an ordinary existence. 

I would also disregard the religion of peace as a source. Transparently islamophobic website built to reinforce an existing bias. It would also serve you well to remember that the drone wars, the invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya to name just a few highlights are the best recruiting tool that the terrorist groups in these areas ever had. The US is killing people in these countries without any legal recourse for the human collateral damage.
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#29
(06-03-2018, 03:23 PM)forever_incel Wrote: Nic2

@Vitriol
@Pencil_Neck_Chad
@Labrot


We told you to get gyno surgery, you didn’t listen. It’s over for you.

Lebensmüde
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#30
(06-03-2018, 05:09 PM)Towie Wrote: If you look at mass shootings / school shootings, these are far more often classified as the act of a person with a mental illness than a hate crime or a terrorist attack. Why? Because the shooters are white
The Parkland shooter was a Hispanic kid raised by a single mother(as are 95% of school shooters). It wasn't considered terrorism, because it wasn't designed to advance a political or ideological goal. The two acts of incel terrorism were considered terrorism, and they were both white. And that's because they had a stated motive to instill terror among the wider community. 

Islamic terrorism is easy to identify. It's when someone kills people for the sake of Islam. The pulse nightclub shooter was Caucasian. It was also an Islamic attack on a gay nightclub. Something that Islam is far more deeply opposed to than Christians ever have been. 

(06-03-2018, 05:09 PM)Towie Wrote: I would also disregard the religion of peace as a source. Transparently islamophobic website built to reinforce an existing bias. 
I never dismiss a CNN or Salon article because "It's from a globaist source who ignores anything that doesn't fit the 'diversity is out strength' narrative". 

Note that everything else is from Pew, Politifact, and a UK polling firm. All of which are very Left leaning. Isolating yourself from Right biased sites is no different from someone incubated on Fox News, Breitbart, and Infowars who dares not venture out to liberal fake news flourishing at CNN, MotherJones, and Salon.

The only way to ever find out what's going on is to venture over to the other side. Because "your" side is almost always censoring information they don't like. I'd know very well as someone who doesn't fit at all in either party. Some of the best journalism I've ever seen has been on DailyKos and ZeroHedge. Not exactly unbiased sites, but certainly not just distilling the same top down message.

(06-03-2018, 05:09 PM)Towie Wrote: I don't think it is even in dispute that the type of person in the EU or US that is drawn to ISIS might well become a radical incel or a school shooter if they happened to be white rather than Muslim. The underlying reasons are the same: boredom, loneliness, depression, looking for a cause to fight for to escape an ordinary existence. 
There is a very close link. And it's related to world perspective. While general lack of sexual success is a driving force, the ideology of incels and Muslims are both uniquely toxic. There are plenty of Mexican Catholics who can't get laid. Plenty of Hindus who can't get laid. Yet they don't turn to mass murder. That is unique to Incels and Muslims. 

I don't think the drive comes from nowhere. Most Incels and Muslims never do anything. But a disproportionate number do relative to other ideologies. The ideology found in both works as an amplifier. I've seen what is brewing in incel corners. It's extremely toxic. I can't read Arabic, but I'd be very surprised if it's any worse with them. 

I do believe that the Incel community is truly uniquely toxic. I draw the comparison to Islam as a warning of the future. In 1970 there was virtually no Islamic terrorism. There were a few attacks in the entire planet. The number of victims of Islamic terror attacks number in the hundreds in the entire decade. The decade of 2010 will claim the lives of over a million people thanks to ISIS and other powerful movements. It has proliferated over the decades. 

Will Incels manage to spread their toxic ideology as Islamists have? I don't know. I think there is a very real possibility they will. I think the last thing we should be doing is treating it as a non-issue or something other than what it is. There will never be as many Incels as there are Muslims, but they could easily grow to be a legitimately large problem.

TransistorBass-303 Wrote:I need Fat Acceptance because the alternative is self improvement.

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#31
Well we agree on one thing here - I do read Breitbart and other conservative news outlets to see what 'the other side' are saying. But it is important to take the likely biases into account when evaluating the message. TheReligionOfPeace is a one issue blog. 


I don't think we have a lot of overlap in our political views, but you seem to be quite a sensible person otherwise. So I'd like to ask - what should we do about incels in your view?

I personally think that 'looks based' dating apps such as Tinder create a sort of skewed view of relationships among some of the younger people. Nothing wrong with trying to look your best and optimise your chances, but I would (and do) tell young men to try and meet people in ways that will enable them to develop and show off all of their assets. What else can you do? The incels seem to think that you'd have to reintroduce the patriarchy on steroids to fix their issue, and that doesn't even seem to work for conservative Muslims who live in that type of environment.
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#32
(06-03-2018, 09:40 PM)Towie Wrote: I don't think we have a lot of overlap in our political views, but you seem to be quite a sensible person otherwise. So I'd like to ask - what should we do about incels in your view?
I voted for Kerry and Obama(twice) so probably more than you'd think(though not on this issue). Of course I voted for Trump, but he's the only Republican I've ever voted for. I've never liked religious nuttery. Which is way more common on the Right. But I never considered Muslims to be allies and never understood how liberals could view them that way. They're like fundamentalist Christians, but even more extreme.

What to do with incels is complicated. And I certainly don't have a complete answer. Most of these guys never really had a father figure. They were either raised by single moms, or their dad's just weren't very involved with them, and never demanded anything of them. I think the biggest step to dealing with Incels is to prevent them from forming. I think @Gwyn and Goku here are examples of why there's just no going back after they've dived into the ideology. Maybe some of the younger ones are salvageable. I was hoping Gwyn was, but he's just too committed to failure.

One thing that needs to happen is we need to stop lying to young men about what young women like. And we should stop conflating what a 35 year old woman wants in a husband, with what a 15 year old girl wants in her first boyfriend. They are not the same thing. 98% of dating advice for young men is written on the topic of how to get a much, much older woman. And we constantly preach things to men like "Women don't even care about looks very much. They mostly care about charm and confidence!". 
And so ugly guys and even above average guys wander through life wondering why they can't get pretty girls. Well it's not his looks. So it must be because he's a shit person. 
I'm not sure why anyone thinks "No, you look fine, you must just be a shit human being" is somehow nicer than saying "She's too pretty for you. Maybe try dating a less attractive girl". 
Eventually, the low self esteem of having bad character bakes in. And then he eventually concludes he's ugly on top of being a useless human being. Now you have someone who thinks he lacks any decent character traits, and is ugly on top of it.

So I don't have a full answer. I don't know that there's anything that be done about self-identified incels. But there are probably things we can do to make it less likely that they develop in the first place.


(06-03-2018, 09:40 PM)Towie Wrote: The incels seem to think that you'd have to reintroduce the patriarchy on steroids to fix their issue, and that doesn't even seem to work for conservative Muslims who live in that type of environment.
You are completely correct. It doesn't work well. Though you've given me some insight into why Incels may be worse than Muslims. Muslims have a true patriarchy that doesn't benefit most of them, while incels *long for* a patriarchy that doesn't exist. They have a similar view of women and society, but don't even have illusionary power. They are very acutely aware of their lack of power.

I'm going to have to pay attention to how much of a role entitlement for power, while personally lacking it, may play in terrorism. It makes sense that they would be related. Power is after all, your influence over other people. So when you have none, a mass murder is certainly a way to make up for lost ground.

TransistorBass-303 Wrote:I need Fat Acceptance because the alternative is self improvement.

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#33
(06-03-2018, 03:23 PM)forever_incel Wrote: Nic2

@Vitriol
@Pencil_Neck_Chad
@Labrot

She’s right. Your nipples are huge bro aren’t you embarrassed? Please get the surgery man.







Nic2

"Your genes are pretty fucked up I'll tell you that," a poster with an anime avatar told the teen point blank."
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#34
(06-03-2018, 11:00 PM)Vitriol Wrote: She’s right. Your nipples are huge bro aren’t you embarrassed? Please get the surgery man.







Nic2

[Image: 79032bb42bdafdc3e2d784210922655e.gif]
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#35
(06-03-2018, 10:34 PM)TheGreatCornholio Wrote: I voted for Kerry and Obama(twice) so probably more than you'd think(though not on this issue). Of course I voted for Trump, but he's the only Republican I've ever voted for. I've never liked religious nuttery. Which is way more common on the Right. But I never considered Muslims to be allies and never understood how liberals could view them that way. They're like fundamentalist Christians, but even more extreme.

What to do with incels is complicated. And I certainly don't have a complete answer. Most of these guys never really had a father figure. They were either raised by single moms, or their dad's just weren't very involved with them, and never demanded anything of them. I think the biggest step to dealing with Incels is to prevent them from forming. I think @Gwyn and Goku here are examples of why there's just no going back after they've dived into the ideology. Maybe some of the younger ones are salvageable. I was hoping Gwyn was, but he's just too committed to failure.

One thing that needs to happen is we need to stop lying to young men about what young women like. And we should stop conflating what a 35 year old woman wants in a husband, with what a 15 year old girl wants in her first boyfriend. They are not the same thing. 98% of dating advice for young men is written on the topic of how to get a much, much older woman. And we constantly preach things to men like "Women don't even care about looks very much. They mostly care about charm and confidence!". 
And so ugly guys and even above average guys wander through life wondering why they can't get pretty girls. Well it's not his looks. So it must be because he's a shit person. 
I'm not sure why anyone thinks "No, you look fine, you must just be a shit human being" is somehow nicer than saying "She's too pretty for you. Maybe try dating a less attractive girl". 
Eventually, the low self esteem of having bad character bakes in. And then he eventually concludes he's ugly on top of being a useless human being. Now you have someone who thinks he lacks any decent character traits, and is ugly on top of it.

So I don't have a full answer. I don't know that there's anything that be done about self-identified incels. But there are probably things we can do to make it less likely that they develop in the first place.


You are completely correct. It doesn't work well. Though you've given me some insight into why Incels may be worse than Muslims. Muslims have a true patriarchy that doesn't benefit most of them, while incels *long for* a patriarchy that doesn't exist. They have a similar view of women and society, but don't even have illusionary power. They are very acutely aware of their lack of power.

I'm going to have to pay attention to how much of a role entitlement for power, while personally lacking it, may play in terrorism. It makes sense that they would be related. Power is after all, your influence over other people. So when you have none, a mass murder is certainly a way to make up for lost ground.
Easiest way to prevent an incel from forming is to have breeding standards and to kill off men and women who are visibly ugly and or deformed

You can go to the moon, invent a cure to every known disease and eliminate global poverty and still be regarded as creep by roasties.



You can be villainous murderer, baby killer and drug lord and still be considered "just perfext x0x0x".



What you accomplish means nothing. Sub 6 PSL = death


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#36
Well I partially agree with what you said there. If everybody regardless of looks wants to date the 3 prettiest teenage girls, most people will fail.



I'm just perennially confused why this somewhat extreme ideology does not affect girls to the same extent. I was two years younger than most people in my class (I skipped one) and a total nerd with bad dress sense, so I'm quite aware how it feels if no one at school is into you whatsoever. The less confident, less pretty girls are just completely ignored by the incel contingent, but don't feel as entitled to the 2 % most handsome guys, and don't usually form hate groups on the internet. I do admit that girls aren't told by society that they have to lose their virginity ASAP to become 'real women'. 

Isn't the core of the answer, both for men and for women, that you need to develop some self worth that is not tied to your looks , not tied to your academic achievements, and not necessarily tied to social status? Just by developing some skills and some interests that will sustain you and turn you into a person that you would like to associate with? 
I don't mean to suggest that we should tell people that looks don't matter - they do - but there's more to preventing depression and lack of self esteem than working on your abs.
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#37
(06-04-2018, 05:38 AM)Towie Wrote: Well I partially agree with what you said there. If everybody regardless of looks wants to date the 3 prettiest teenage girls, most people will fail.



I'm just perennially confused why this somewhat extreme ideology does not affect girls to the same extent. I was two years younger than most people in my class (I skipped one) and a total nerd with bad dress sense, so I'm quite aware how it feels if no one at school is into you whatsoever. The less confident, less pretty girls are just completely ignored by the incel contingent, but don't feel as entitled to the 2 % most handsome guys, and don't usually form hate groups on the internet. I do admit that girls aren't told by society that they have to lose their virginity ASAP to become 'real women'. 

Isn't the core of the answer, both for men and for women, that you need to develop some self worth that is not tied to your looks , not tied to your academic achievements, and not necessarily tied to social status? Just by developing some skills and some interests that will sustain you and turn you into a person that you would like to associate with? 
I don't mean to suggest that we should tell people that looks don't matter - they do - but there's more to preventing depression and lack of self esteem than working on your abs.


Oh wow

lookie here

another hypergamous whore shittalking incels

what a surprise
Rolleyes

You can go to the moon, invent a cure to every known disease and eliminate global poverty and still be regarded as creep by roasties.



You can be villainous murderer, baby killer and drug lord and still be considered "just perfext x0x0x".



What you accomplish means nothing. Sub 6 PSL = death


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#38
Be nice.

@Towie has provided invaluable perspectives as one of the few female members left on this forum. Girls are an endangered species here and we must do everything to protect them. Hi Mommy @Evelyn please choke me

"Your genes are pretty fucked up I'll tell you that," a poster with an anime avatar told the teen point blank."
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#39
(06-04-2018, 11:03 AM)Vitriol Wrote: @Towie has provided invaluable perspectives




(06-04-2018, 11:03 AM)Vitriol Wrote: Be nice.

@Towie has provided invaluable perspectives as one of the few female members left on this forum. Girls are an endangered species here and we must do everything to protect them. Hi Mommy @Evelyn please choke me


I am nice

saying the harsh truth isn't going to change anything

You can go to the moon, invent a cure to every known disease and eliminate global poverty and still be regarded as creep by roasties.



You can be villainous murderer, baby killer and drug lord and still be considered "just perfext x0x0x".



What you accomplish means nothing. Sub 6 PSL = death


Reply
#40
(06-04-2018, 11:03 AM)Vitriol Wrote: Be nice.

@Towie has provided invaluable perspectives as one of the few female members left on this forum. Girls are an endangered species here and we must do everything to protect them. Hi Mommy @Evelyn please choke me

Thanks Vitriol, appreciate that.

@Gwyn, I'm pretty much immune to whatever shit you want to throw at me for negative attention, but I will say this much - I registered to help out a guy who is in the fun post-jaw surgery state where you feel like a fucking hamster and wonder whether you went through all this for nothing. That's all folks.
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